In this episode of The Marketing Mix, we’re talking to Nikki Fabrizio about the power of using customer success stories - otherwise known as case studies - in content marketing.
Nikki shares her experience in producing both written and video testimonials for a range of companies. She stresses the importance of finding the right clients for case studies - ensuring you have a diverse set of customers featured - and showcasing realistic, believable applications that have brought them results. She also provides tips on conducting interviews with clients and ensuring their authenticity shines through in the case study.
We go on to talk about the dynamics between sales and marketing teams when it comes to case studies, including the benefits of collaboration and whether you need to provide incentives to bring in good stories.
Nikki discusses the different approaches required for written case studies and video testimonials, and the relative strengths of each format. And she emphasizes the importance of accessibility in video content and the need for captions to ensure inclusivity.
Key Takeaways:
Links:
Connect with Nikki on LinkedIn
Nikki recommends two newsletters:
Marketing Brew
Total ANNARCHY
In this episode of The Marketing Mix, we’re talking to Nikki Fabrizio about the power of using customer success stories - otherwise known as case studies - in content marketing.
Nikki shares her experience in producing both written and video testimonials for a range of companies. She stresses the importance of finding the right clients for case studies - ensuring you have a diverse set of customers featured - and showcasing realistic, believable applications that have brought them results. She also provides tips on conducting interviews with clients and ensuring their authenticity shines through in the case study.
We go on to talk about the dynamics between sales and marketing teams when it comes to case studies, including the benefits of collaboration and whether you need to provide incentives to bring in good stories.
Nikki discusses the different approaches required for written case studies and video testimonials, and the relative strengths of each format. And she emphasizes the importance of accessibility in video content and the need for captions to ensure inclusivity.
Key Takeaways:
Links:
Connect with Nikki on LinkedIn
Nikki recommends two newsletters:
Marketing Brew
Total ANNARCHY
Steve Cummins:
Content marketing means different things to different people. But in general, it’s a way to generate interest without paying directly for leads. You create compelling content - whether it’s an article, an infographic, a video - that’s interesting to potential customers, to build credibility with them and pull them along the buyers journey. And you use unpaid and paid channels to get that content in front of people.
One really valuable part of content marketing that often gets overlooked, is to use your own customers success stories to show how you’ve solved a similar problem for others. You’re providing social proof of your value, in a language your prospects understands and respond to . And that’s the value of Case Studies, and that’s what we’ll be talking about today.
[Intro Music]
Steve Cummins:
Today on the marketing mix, we're talking about content marketing and in particular how you can use your success stories to help you gain new customers. I'm talking with Nikki Fabrizio, who is just a great content marketer. I've been lucky enough to work with her in the past on a number of different projects, including video, social media, copywriting. Nikki, welcome to the marketing mix.
Nikki Fabrizio:
Thank you so much for having me.
Steve Cummins:
So I started out with this broad statement, we're going to talk about content marketing. I think the reality is it's such a broad area that people don't necessarily think about everything it covers. So maybe you can start out just with an explanation of what content marketing is and what kind of tactics it includes.
Nikki Fabrizio:
Yeah, so I think a lot of people think of content marketing. They're just thinking of sell, sell, sell, but it's not really quite that. So if you imagine you're hanging out with people, one of them starts talking about an amazing recipe they've tried. They're not trying to sell you the recipe, but they're sharing something cool that they discovered. That's kind of what content marketing is. It's not about shoving a product or service in someone's face and saying, get this. It's more like, check out this awesome thing, you might like it, and then if you're lucky, they will buy the thing. So it's all about creating valuable, relevant, consistent content to attract and engage a target audience. You're building a relationship with them without always trying to just sell. For most people, I know for myself, I get enough ads in my day-to-day. I don't need to be sold to all the time.
If that's the only thing you're showing me, I'm probably going to ignore you. But if you give me something interesting or a relevant topic near your product, it might lead me down the funnel to actually want to engage with your product. It's not just shouting about how great you are all the time, even though I'm sure you are, but you don't have to do it constantly. You want to provide useful information, tell stories, or even just entertain because the people who entertain and give you information, you tend to trust them and like them and then you can lead them down to purchasing.
Steve Cummins:
So that makes it sound like this is definitely a long-term strategy. This isn't something that we've got to get leads by the end of the quarter. Let's start doing content marketing. This is much more about having a plan and execute and over a period of time,
Nikki Fabrizio:
Yeah, you're not going to be like, alright, we're going to crank out five blog posts and we'll do a video on the fly. And then sales! It's not quite how it works. It's important to start to crank out content but have a long form strategy for how you're going to execute it and can keep it going. There's no point in putting out a blog post and then nothing else for six months. You're not going to retain people that way.
Steve Cummins:
So it's definitely a longer term investment. I've always thought of people say, what's the difference between sales and marketing? And I always say sales is that 30, 60, 90 day outlook, and then marketing is 90 days plus. So you've got to have that consistency to go with it. So you've been doing this a while. How have you seen content marketing evolve over the last five years or so?
Nikki Fabrizio:
Yeah, five years sounds kind of like a short time now in this day and age, time is hard to gauge, but in the digital world, five years is a lifetime and content marketing has had a lot of changes. For one, the rise of video. Reading blogs used to be the end all be all. That might just be also my generation. I grew up in the age of MySpace and blogging, but now video is kind of forefront and key. Everyone's on TikTok, everyone's trying to make Instagram reels. Every brand is trying to blow up on TikTok. Everyone is a video creator now. So that has been a huge change and I know this is, we are on a podcast right now, but there's been a huge podcast boom over the last five years. If you had told me a couple years ago I'd be listening to podcast about true crime or succulents or any topic marketing, I'd be like, am I really?
But the answer is yes. Podcasts are huge now and I don't know if anyone really saw that coming and kind of eclipsing what radio used to be. Also authenticity and values. Brands are trying to get way more authentic. They're realizing that people don't just buy a product, they want to buy stories, they want to believe in the company they're buying from. And so a lot of content is using intent in a real voice nowadays, which is a bit different than how it used to be, which was more general and in my mind, very salesy a lot of the time.
Steve Cummins:
Yeah. It's interesting that you started out talking about all the different platforms and TikTok and podcast being a big deal. I think that is one of the challenges with content marketing. I do think one of the challenges with content marketing is choosing which tactics to use because there is so much you can do. One of them or the one that I want to talk about today is about how you share your customer success stories and typically we call 'em case studies use cases. I know you've done a few of these in different ways and different formats, so I do want to dig into that. But before we get into that, how would you encourage a business owner to invest some of their resources in creating those case studies? It takes time and maybe it takes some money to do it right?
Nikki Fabrizio:
Yeah, I think it is not something that needs a huge budget and not the largest investment. I think a lot of businesses don't realize the stories are already there. You just have to find them and a great way to do that is it doesn't just have to be marketing. It's a great way for sales and product teams to come together as well to help find those stories and they can be as simple as a quick interview with a client. They don't have to be huge productions, they don't have to be huge film sets. They can be and those can be really great, but it takes very little investment to do it and I think organizations can get a lot back from putting in that time to case studies.
Steve Cummins:
Yeah, for sure. So let's say you're doing a case study. What are some of the key elements you look for that are going to make up a really good case study for you?
Nikki Fabrizio:
First off, it's the client. Obviously they are kind of the star of the story or at least that's what they tend to think. It's really your product or service, but for them they are the star and that's fine for them to think that. Who are they? What do they do? You want to find customers who have an engaging story with your product who want to do something like this. We are going to come across great on a case study, just like a podcast or a video. People might be awesome face-to-face. You get them in an interview, you get them in front of a camera, they just clam up. You get just very generic nondescript sentences from them when you read it back, you're like this, no one's going to read this. So it's really great to kind make sure you're pinpointing the right clients and that's where the sales teams can come in and really help with that.
You also want to make sure that you have diversification. For example, at one organization I used to work for, we had about almost a dozen case studies on one specific kind of organization we worked with, which is great and I'm glad all those orgs were so happy to talk to us, but we had a lot of other channels as well. We didn't need to just talk about that. And so finding diversity of clients is really useful as well. And also making sure there's a clear result or solution pinpointing exactly the challenge that a client faced. That's the drama. It's the problem that needs solving and your product or service is the hero. So outlining that challenge, the solution, which that's you describing how your product or service came in, how it was implemented, the plan and action so to speak, and then the results, the tangible outcomes.
If you can give numbers, that's always great. Did sales increase? Was there a boost in website traffic? Any numbers, percentages really helps in showcasing that there was this issue. You came in, it's now solved, everyone's lives are better and if you can get visuals, a picture's worth a thousand words, so you could have seven paragraphs of how this story resulted, but if you can throw one photo in there and cut out three paragraphs kind of showcasing like, oh, it does look great, or that was so simple for them, it really boosts the authenticity of what you're trying to convey.
Steve Cummins:
Yeah, for sure. I feel your pain with the diversification. I had quite a public exchange with a sales leader one time because we kept pushing a set of case studies that had come from our European market and he pushed back and said, Hey Steve, why are we always showing these folks in, I think it was the Netherlands and the uk. And I said, well, I tell you why. I said, because the American team isn't bringing us any case studies. So to your point, I think oftentimes that diversification only comes about if you're working closely with different people in the organization to bring in different, I suspect that case you were talking about, there's probably one or two salespeople that just loved doing the case studies and thought it was great for their process and so they kept delivering 'em.
So something you talked about I thought was interesting.You were talking about the hero of the story and I think there is a tendency to try and make your product or service the hero of the story. You're right though it should be the customer should be the hero. You want to build them up. Have you ever run into the situation where the customer is trying so hard to sell your product for you that it almost becomes a disservice. You have to pull them back from, oh, your product is the best and without it I wouldn't have a job. That kind of thing. How do you handle that?
Nikki Fabrizio:
Yeah, I've had cases where the customers are so keen, which warms my heart, fills me with joy. So great, the best kind of problem to have, but it comes across as cheesy or almost like a paid advertisement where it was so great I would be lost without it. And then everyone clapped at the end and when you put it into writing, it just looks disingenuous. Like the case study's not even real, we just made it up. So it's about having a conversation with your client, that's also how you're going to get them to give the most authentic and truthful reactions to using your product. Having a conversation, if they start to veer down that path of just really buttering you up, trying to pull it back a bit, just steering them in the direction. It's great to hear that you feel that way. I'm so glad we've been of service asking more detailed questions where it's harder for them to just give generic greatness and they really actually have to talk about they use the product that helps kind of pull away.
And then also remembering you're not just going to post the transcript of this conversation you have with the client. You do have some free liberties to modify and write it. And for myself, I always, not every organization does this as a kind of trust to my customers. I always would send a final draft of what the published case study would look like, so they had an overview and so there could be no after it goes live, well, I didn't actually say that or I don't like how that came across. You don't want to put yourself in a situation where the customer's like, I actually don't like this, and now they want you to take it off your website. Giving them, usually they have zero edits, which is great, my favorite kind, but allowing them to just get an eye on it before it's public also really helps build that relationship with them.
It's also always great to send that follow up email of this is live your hard work, how you're going to get the reach and engagement you're looking for as well. People love to showcase what they've done. Just how I will share this podcast once it goes live, they are going to share that case study with all of their network as well. So gives them the information also helps you in the end.
Steve Cummins:
And that's part of the trick, right? Because the people in their network are potential customers for you. So that's probably half the battle there. So we've talked about almost the tail end of the process, but talk us through how you set up that initial interview with the customer and any tips or tricks you have as to how to make it most effective.
Nikki Fabrizio:
So as I kind of mentioned earlier, the most important part really is finding that client and a great way to do this. I feel like a lot of times marketing teams will be like, how am I supposed to know we're not really working with the clients? Again, the story's just there under the surface. If you start digging, great way to do that. Minimize your work. Work with your sales team. They're the ones who are communicating with these customers day in and day out. A lot of times if they have a close connection, they're hearing about any issues or success stories that are coming through. So I've always had success meeting with sales teams, asking them, are there customers that you think would be receptive to this where they've already had a really great experience? Having them reach out, gauge the interest of the client and then introducing the marketing team makes your life way easier and also helps make sure that you're going to have a quality story.
Another great way to do that is to look at reviews, go to your review sites. If you see recent reviews that are great, just gushing about your product, a lot of times it's very easy to reach out to those users and ask for if they want to be part of a case study and if they're already just organically talking about your product in a positive way, they're probably going to be open to doing a case study as well. So those are great ways to find those stories that are out there. Once you have that, it's all about setting up your objectives, what you want to achieve with the case study. Are you trying to understand their challenges and successes, their overall experience? Is there one specific area of your product that you're trying to highlight within it that will kind of help you draft out your questions?
And then setting the stage, starting with small talk, if you go right into it, you're going to get those stunted, very professional, very generic answers. Most people, that's not what you're looking for. You want a conversational, authentic story that people actually are going to want to read and engage with. So small talk, getting them at ease, making it feel like it's not that big a deal, even if it's a big deal for you, helping them feel relaxed, explaining the process so no part of it is a surprise to them and throws them off. Of course, making sure they consent to you recording the conversation, which I highly recommend no matter how much diligent note taking you do during it, there's always going to be some great quote or stat they throw at you that you just miss while typing. And then you're kicking yourself, just record the conversation.
You want a transcript to go back on when you can pull those quotes exactly as is. And then if a customer is like, did I say that? You can say, well, yeah, I have the transcript right here.
Steve Cummins:
You made an interesting point that the best way to find these folks is to collaborate with the sales team. And I'm a big fan in how do you reduce that friction between sales and marketing. So I think this is a great byproduct of that, but do you think you should first of all be incentivizing the sales team to bring potential customers forward? And do you think you should be incentivizing the customer to actually give the case studies? Any thoughts on that?
Nikki Fabrizio:
That is a big question a lot of organizations have when it comes to case studies. They might immediately go, well, we don't have the budget to incentivize customers to do this or to kind of reward the sales team for throwing these leads our way, so we can't do it. That I think is not true. This is something that I had to deal with when I was building a case study program for an organization I worked with going back and forth, do we incentivize? If so, what's the incentive? Also, how do we kick something to the sales team? But I figured let's just start. Let's see if we can get them without the incentive. And then if it's flat, we'll look at it. And actually we never needed to come up with an incentive program. So when it comes to customers and clients, again, people love talking about themselves.
So I've found there is no need to incentivize. It's also kind of great to throw to them that it's a great promotion for their organization. You're also kind of promoting them and it gets their name and face somewhere else, which then it's kind of they're not just doing something for you, you're also doing something for them. You're introducing their organization to a new audience as well. When you're promoting that case study, which I find a lot of orgs are like, oh, so actually it's kind of free promotion and sales for me, which definitely helps. When it comes to the sales team, I find a lot of places sales and marketing are quite siloed from each other. So just marketing, reaching out, being like, Hey, we want you involved with this. They're already intrigued and willing to help out. For myself, I would keep the sales team involved as much as they want it to be, and some team members would be like, I'm too busy, take this customer and run with it great.
Others, they're like, that's my customer. I'm a little hesitant to just hand it over to marketing. Well, that's fine too. Be involved. So I'd keep them on all the email chains. I would even invite the sales team to join in on the interview calls I would do. So we'd all hop on Zoom. I would try and tell the sales team member mostly just watch, I have my questions, but if a question comes your way, and sometimes though that would be a great collaboration, the client already knows the sales team members. So immediately they feel a little more comfortable. They're used to having conversations with this person, that sales team member vouches for me. That I'm also a cool and okay person. So the client opens up a little more and then the sales team member also has been working with this person usually for a couple weeks or months.
And so they do have that background knowledge and insight that they might have more specific questions they can pepper in to really help flush out your case study. And then just telling the sales team member, Hey, in the end this is really for you. Now you're going to have this resource that you can send out in emails to other customers who might have this same use case or issue. You can send a client that you work with and how we help them. You can send through your network and be like, this is my client. Again, being able to talk about yourself and promote yourself that you helped put this all together, I found no incentive needed for either party in the end, everyone was happy just making this great product that talked about themselves in some way.
Steve Cummins:
Interesting. I think one of the advantages you have, you build a very good rapport with the sales team. So even though you said, oh, marketing in some companies, marketing doesn't talk to sales and they're happy to talk to you. I've seen for you it's the opposite. This is not the first time you're coming and talking to them. You've probably already helped them out with a whole bunch of things. So now this is just, Hey, something else I was thinking we could work on. Anecdotally, I had a situation, so we had zero case studies. Nobody was bringing us case studies, so we decided to pay the sales team, I think it was $250 for every published case study that they brought in. And I think we got one and then we upped it to a thousand dollars for I think it was a three month situation.
And the strange thing was we did get several, but those salespeople actually said, which is hard to believe really, but they said, I'm not doing it for the bonus. I just realized that this is something we should be doing. So I think it is much more about making them realize, and actually I should go back. So the reason they did it was they had seen the one that we did. They had seen what had come from it and how useful it was. So then it's like, oh, okay, we really do need these. So I agree with you. I think on the sales side, you probably don't need to do it. I think for the customers company swag is always good, particularly if it's something unique, right? Like, oh, you can only get this if you give us a case study. And then a lot of people are into building their personal brand. So I think for the customer it can be useful for them for that perspective as well.
So we've been talking primarily about written case studies, which is generally what people think of as a case study, right? It's a P D F or it's a webpage, but with the advent or not the advent, the growth of YouTube video platforms, TikTok, all of that good stuff, there is now a move more towards doing video testimonials or video case studies. Any thoughts on that in terms of how you would approach that differently?
Nikki Fabrizio:
Yeah, it's kind of like comparing books to movies, which lucky for me, I like both. They both have their strengths, their charm. They're both good for different things and for a lot of orgs, oh, we do not have the resources for videos. We can never do that. Not necessarily true. Again, they're both good in their own way. So for written testimonials, they are quick and easy or quicker and easier than a video. Setting up the interview and typing it out is a lot less labor intensive than setting up how you're going to do videos.
Testimonials, very versatile. You can put them on your website, include them in one pagers, send them an email campaigns, they can kind of go anywhere, link on social media. So they're very easy to use across all your channels. And they also have s e o benefits search engines, they're getting there. They can't quite watch videos yet, but they can read. So written content is great for boosting your ss e o game, but with written it can lack emotion unless you have a really great copywriter, it could be hard to convey tone and emotion in writing. It's hard to see that genuine excitement from a customer or the gratitude a customer might feel. And it can come across as generic, especially if you're writing about a lot of similar organizations, you can kind of be like, oh, are they just kind of writing the same thing and swapping out a company name?
And you don't want people to start thinking your case studies are fabricated, then you're doing the opposite of what they should be doing for you, which is building trust. But when it comes to videos, they can be very emotionally engaging. You get the right videographer or editor and hug mobile's got a movie, you've got people shedding tears at the end about how your product really came through for this person. But honestly, seeing someone's face light up as they talk about your product or hearing the relief in their voice when they talk about the solution you gave them, it's powerful stuff that really resonates with people and makes it seem authentic. Therefore, kind of building that trust. It's way harder to fake a video in someone's genuine reaction than it is to write a couple sentences so people know they're seeing a real person really vouch for a product.
So it's very convincing and they're versatile as well. You can share them on social media, you can link to them in emails, put it on a website homepage, even play it at events. They have a lot of uses as well. But again, they do require more effort. Now I am a very scrappy video person. I'm always of the belief of you don't need a whole team. Sometimes you really can throw it together. One or two people, especially with cell phones these days, they're recording in four K. If you know someone who can put clips together, it can be way easier than you expect. But it does usually take a little bit more budget, a little bit more time. And something a lot of people don't think about is accessibility issues. Not everyone can watch videos, even if it's something like you're on the train, you're in a noisy environment, you're on the subway, you don't have wifi access.
So a case study will load in one station, you can read it on your train a video, you're going to get 30 seconds in and then you're stuck. Easier to watch those to read a case study on the fly than watch sometimes, but also making sure it's accessible for people with disabilities, including captions. It's kind of wild how many videos I see coming up from brands and organizations that still don't have captions or just have those autogenerated ones, which they're getting better, but they're still not quite there yet. So even if you're watching the captions, you're like, what? They're talking about what I have to. So you do have to take the time to do things like that, and I think it's very important if you're going to make a video or do resources like that, do it all the way so your entire audience can be included.
Steve Cummins:
Yeah, the accessibility point's a good one. It's that last 5% or probably last 2% of effort. You've put all that time into recording the video, editing it, and then you just don't follow through with that. I think it's a fair point.
So it sounds as though you're more in favor of the written ones than the video ones, and maybe it's a volume thing. I think it's good to have a couple of video testimonials on your website. You don't need every case study to be a video. And I remember you gave me this advice once, which I thought was really smart, which is you do the written testimonial first and then you've built a rapport with that person. You have a pretty good idea whether they would then come across well on video. So probably in every case you do the written case study first and then maybe you cherry pick which ones you turn into video.
The other mistake that I see people make is, oh, we're going to go to a trade show and we're going to record video case studies at the booth or in the corridor next to the trade show. And I mean the quality is terrible, even if the video itself is okay, the sound quality is bad, it just doesn't look professional. So I am in the camp of if you're going to do video, you do it high quality. To your point, you don't do it on Zoom, it looks like a hostage video. You don't do it. You can absolutely do it on your iPhone, but you've got to have the right environment around and all of that good stuff. So I realize at the beginning of that, I put words in your mouth and said, you're more of a fan of written case studies than video. I should give you a chance to respond to that.
Nikki Fabrizio:
You're pretty right. My verdict is one is not better than the other. It's about what fits your audience and your brand and your message. If you can, as you just pointed out, why not have both have that written testimonial. It's like a quick snapshot. And the video is the more immersive experience, depending on what you want, how you want to use them, and again, what you have the resources for. It is easier to start your case study journey, building up some written, and then from there you start to see what answers your customers are given. You start to see who could be good on video. Also, what's feasible. If you're talking to a customer who's across the country or in another part of the world, it's probably going to be a little harder to get videos of them. But if it's a customer that's an hour drive, then maybe might be easy to just pop in the car and hop up there for three hours one day and do that testimonial.
Steve Cummins:
Yeah, absolutely
. So we've talked a lot about case studies. You are not just a case study writer, you fit that content market and mold, you do videos, you do social media, you do copywriting, really good copywriting. How do you keep up to date on the trends? Because this is something that's constantly changing. So are the blogs or the websites or the podcast that you think people should pay attention to?
Nikki Fabrizio:
I'm all about the email newsletter. I'm already in my email all day anyway, so just send me the updates there. So I can take a break between answering emails or kind of figuring out next projects. I take five minutes to get those updates. So for me, two I really like and one is the Marketing Brew, I believe it comes out three times a week. It covers updates from all around the marketing world. So it keeps me really generally up to date and it's also really great. I might not have thought that might be relevant to what I'm working on, but actually that might be good to mention in a relevant social media post or something of that nature. So that's really great to really keep up to touch. But in terms of marketing with a personality, I am a big fan of Total Annarchy with two n’s.
So it's this woman Anne Handley. She writes about a wide range of marketing, but she also focuses very much on copywriting knowledge. So I do a lot of copywriting and copy editing. So her newsletter is kind of perfect for me. It tends to be very funny while also being informative. There's always a lot of writing tips and marketing insights and it also comes across as it's written by a person. You can see their personality within the newsletter. So I always love seeing that pop up to see what's going on this week. What's that quick laugh I can get before I dive back into everything?
Steve Cummins:
Alright, nice. I'll put links to those in the show notes. So final question, most important question. So one of the reasons I started the podcast is I like talking to people about marketing over coffee, over a cocktail. So if we were doing this in person, not through a screen, what would be your drink of choice?
Nikki Fabrizio:
Honestly, the toughest question you've asked me this whole interview, I've been thinking hard
Steve Cummins:
I save the tough questions till last
Nikki Fabrizio:
Really put me on the spot. I mean, it's hard to beat a classic Guinness though. I know that's actually a lot of people feel one way or the other about Guinness. They're either big fans or they're like, why do you like to drink bread? I think it's delicious, it's beautiful when it's pour correctly. It's
Steve Cummins:
A nice life here.
Steve Cummins:
I know you're a big, big traveler, right? So is there a particular place that you have had Guinness? Because part of, you're right, Guinness is one of those love, I hate things, but there's also people who will swear they will only drink Guinness at a certain place. Do you have a go-to place?
Nikki Fabrizio:
I hate to kind of agree with that group, but the Guinness I've had in Ireland, especially in Dublin, near the storehouse of course, just I don't know if it's almost a placebo effect of being in the area and you're convincing yourself, oh it tastes fresher. I bet it just came from across the street, but it really does taste fresh over there. And of course they're all certified in pouring it there. So you're always going to get that truly perfect pint.
Steve Cummins:
That is true. They claim it's because the water's taken from the River Liffe. I think that's supposedly the difference. But alright, I agree with you. I do like a glass of Guinness myself, so we'll have to drink a toast with that the next time we get together. S
o Nikki, thanks very much. Appreciate you sharing your expertise and look forward to talking soon over a glass of Guinness. Thank you.
Nikki Fabrizio:
Thank you.